“Strike MoMA, The Coalition Leading The Path To A Post-MoMA Future And Exposing A Museum’s Broken System”

Leon Black, evidently the man at the helm of it all. Do you think removing him from any positions within the MoMA would cause any real change? What do you envision that looking like?

Amin Husain: I think our opinion is that it wouldn’t change anything, which is why our framework is set up in the sense that we wouldn’t require the institution itself to change but rather you would be bringing your own form of change to it. We also look at it in the sense that if you removed the hierarchy that exists within the museum now, they probably wouldn’t want to have the museum around anyway. That’s what we learned from the Whitney and are trying to do with MoMA. There’s a future that we have to imagine and create together in which MoMA doesn’t dictate or mediate the relationships we have with one another and the art. The goal isn’t to abolish MoMA…the goal is to leave the terms of MoMA. The art needs to be liberated, the institutions need to be held accountable, and the workers need to be in control.

ND: I think Amin did a good job of explaining my thoughts too. What we’re doing is trying to achieve a community that is built through liberated spaces — spaces not controlled by power dynamics or hierarchical institutions. In regards to what it might look like, there are certainly different shapes and forms in which it could take existence. It’s all up to the community, the artist, and the culture to define it for themselves.

Strike MoMA seems to embody less of an artistic avant-garde movement but rather an activist call for change about more social issues. What are your thoughts on this? And do you think it can also be seen as both?

Amin Husain: It’s certainly more of a social movement, and I appreciate the question. The first point is that “avant-garde” is a very western orientation to what it means for art, and how art does things in the world. I’m trying to say that we use that phrase in a way that limits the potential and disguises the intention of why we do things. Avoiding that word removes the possibility of our movement being anchored in that western or modern perspective. What we’re doing is coming from a world that doesn’t separate art from living. So, is Strike MoMA this or that? Well…it’s neither and both. What it’s seeking to do is be in the world in a way that art needs to measure up to us and not the other way around. Institutions need to be responsible to the people and not the oligarchs.

ND: I think it’s all of these things. It’s an art movement, it’s a social movement, and it can also be a pedagogical movement. One of the things that is present in Strike MoMA is that it doesn’t differentiate between doing the research, doing the action, doing the teaching, and sort of making the aesthetics. It all depends on the place or the interest in which you join the movement from. If you come in as an artist, you look at it as an art movement. Looking at the kids in Palestine, they see that the people on the boards of these institutions are funding their wars and creating weapons of destruction, so they see it as a social movement that affects their lives. Strike MoMA tackles all of the above simultaneously because in the end they’re all connected.

Would you say the slogan and the goal of the movement, A Post-Moma Future, is used in a more ideological or structure-based sense?

Amin Husain: What we are imagining is essentially leaving…it’s the terms of exitance. And the terms of exitance for MoMA are ones in which we make irrelevant. If you look at the work we’ve done in the past, this is the first time we haven’t entered the museum — as a form of action. However, if you’re in MoMA you’re able to see the “Post-MoMA Future” across the street which is so much more appealing. We’re trying to show that the terms are not set; there isn’t one particular way to make art, and there isn’t one particular way to have the conversation. It’s literal in the sense that we shape the future now, and it’s in a physical space and also a digital space. It’s about diversifying the set of terms and perspectives that are able to communicate within a space without limits. We’re capturing moments of fleeting beauty that are also transformative in their own way.

ND: Another thing to note that is important is that these institutions are more interested in your pain than your desire. They have the tendency to shun art that even remotely touches on your desires, or what kind of place you want in this world because the moment you do that it upsets their state of quo.

Over the last few months there’s also been a huge increase in museums trying to acquire art by non-white male figures, would you say this is a result of nonstop backlash being received or do you think these acts by museums are genuine?

ND: What we’ve seen is that a lot of institutions are not getting funding if they don’t have diversity, equity, and inclusion in their agenda. It’s more than just caring for them because it’s become an economic problem right now. For museums, I think now they start to see that there is now a huge market for art that is not white. It’s genuine in a different sense for them. MoMA especially is racing to stamp themselves as the museum with the most diverse art or the most diverse staff. In the end, it doesn’t change what these institutions really stand for.

Amin Husain: Is it opportunistic? Is it part of the colonialistic project to take away the energy or the radicality of the movement now? Well…I think it’s a lot of things. I think there are totally well-meaning people like artists and curators who genuinely want to create art and spaces that have meaning. I think there are two ways to look at it. Artists of non-white backgrounds are being sought after to be part of these new exhibitions, and on one level it’s a good thing, and on another level, it’s not the horizon because it dampens the real struggle. If you can’t talk about how little people get paid, how bad people get treated, how bad the people that own the art are, then what does it mean to be included in that system? You’re really only legitimizing it.

Beyond curators, museum enthusiasts, and the many activists that stand with the coalition, who else do you think has a duty or should also be engaging in the conversation? How do you think they can do so best?

Amin Husain: I think that in the terms of the framework of struggle, we outline what we think is the kind of liberatory politics that we can all have with each other. You can make demands, you can make art, you can do all things, and all of this is really just individual choice in autonomy. I think what’s important is the recognition that our liberation requires us all, and we’re in different positions, have different experiences, and are in different modes of oppression. And we also, here in New York, have a responsibility to the world because there is no bigger definer or dictator of art and aesthetics than the MoMA. There is no other place that has who’s who of assholes…money that goes way way back that is directly linked to colonizers. Then within each of us, we have to say how does that relate to our art, our living, our practice, and how can I use my intellectual prowess and sort of maneuver around it or contradict its flow. We’re trying to exclude MoMA from the conversations we should be having with each other, and we can have it through the art we make or the conversations we initiate.

We’ve also witnessed the tragedies that continue to plague the people of Palestine, and the support from Strike MoMA is more evident than ever towards them. Would you say you stand for something more than just advocating for change within the world of art?

Amin Husain: Strike MoMA is definitely specific but in a way, it’s also a metaphor. It’s about striking modernity in spite of the struggle, and modes of resisting and building in the 21st century that isn’t nation-state-centric. And our experience has been involved in working around social movements, and then have moved into working in the cultural arena. Movements take years to develop and solidify, and revolutionary consciousness takes generations you know? So, looking at the work we have done in the past, I would say the most mature effort we have done and been a part of is Strike MoMA. I guess…what we plan to do with or alongside Strike MoMA is yet to be seen.

ND: I think we don’t know where Strike MoMA goes as of now. We’re also focusing on building relationships because that’s what this work is about, and how the work is able to further itself.